Ebay Cloners

[mcass63]

So it begins...........................


http://cgi.ebay.it/BJF-HONEY-BEE-Overdr ... 4ceb9fdab5

'I haven't been able (off course:-) to compare this one with the original'
"BJFE Honey Bee Overdrives", Honey Bee Pedals aren't produced any more and the few originals are around 400 € now and then in ebay;'
'high class copy' - Somehow I doubt that

So much lies+disinformation

[Donner]

oh cool glad to know the HB is finally out of production, dont have to worry about that anymore .....

ok guys try not to point and laugh tooo hard

[DocRock]

It's probably a clone of the SHOD since MP pedals aren't gooped.

[Bobby D]

It's probably a clone of the SHOD since MP pedals aren't gooped.

no......HB was indeed degopped and "cloned"

but the funny part? even after they discovered the circuit, many of them had a lot of trouble "tuning" it properly

it goes to show it's not JUST THE PARTS. there's also some SKILL involved

yes, there are a few clones of the HB about. don't know if they sound "right". and i think most people (99%) woudl rather have the real thing.

[BJF]

Hi,

Well, perhaps interesting to note is the sales pitch that BJFE Honey Bee is no longer in production.

I understand this is something that pops up often with things I have made or designed and suddenly they are outof production......


That's an interesting view on the BJF line as a whole that it might just be outof production and one of the more enlightening things I have read about it was that BJF pedals are vapourware on the internet.

I think that somehow means that they don't exist but only little.....

Oh yes, this is not the first clone I have seen while up until the beginning of this year there were no clones of BJF pedals. One can wonder how that came about and why and I might also think of what it ultimately means and how it affects both me as a person and my business.....

Ah there are as I have seen three honey bee clones that are readly for sale. and this one in Italy is one.
Perhaps somebody would like to compile pictures of the existing clones?

Then as sort of an official stance

I believe I have wrote on places I would not mind someone skilled building clone for his/her own use and maybe for his / her friends too- such things are hobby and never really affects anything but I'd also written that circuits mean little while my company name I have had to work for many years so I'd rather see someone use what circuits I have come up with for their own research and something new or old but under their own name.

But then a circuit may only be as valueable as what name you can attach to it when you sell a product.

Then it is perhaps in the auction above a sellingpoint if the BJFE Honey Bee is outof production and there would only be a few around...

I was just looking at my newly cleaned workshop today and wondering if I should make a honey bee or two or so?

Ah better not considering

What causes trouble most often are internet rumours-in 9 years I have had my share of those and continuing.

I had a choice I could make something typical a standard or several standards for that matter but I thought that I'd drown then and besides it'd be less fun.

I'll tell a bit about BBOD in that thread soon enough.

Something that matters to me is sound and I get ten times the joy back in terms of feedback on sound sometimes a path no longer needed to follow and no more excuses but to play.

Was it only business then that would be one thing and let's protect the house, but it is sound and then after an hour of playing a guy tells me this that, he'd need this one as it released something new, a new way of thinking.

A few years back BJF lectronics was not ready to take on cloners aswell but I think in this day of acceptance of clonage that I will have to clone myself in someway and working on it

Have fun
BJ

[melodichaotic]

It's unfortunate that this type of pirating goes on, but of course it seems to be sewn into the fabric of human nature, and history will support this.

I'd be a liar if I didn't enjoy particularly the fact, of the many bootleg/pirate LP's/videos(mostly of Led Zep) I've purchased since high school, at a premium I might add, and if it was CD's at the time, I might have easily burned some copies for friends, but it was mainly for my own enjoyment since much of this material wasn't readily available then.

In this case, right up front, you have someone playing upon the "unobtainium" factor(Honey Bees no longer in production), really blatant forced misinformation(read weakness and sub-intelligence) as any search will quickly disprove this.

Child-like behavior at best, and then you have BJ's wonderfully healthy attitude and focus on this matter, and many others regarding sound/circuits, and the pursuit of tonal happiness...much more of a qualified parental attitude, in light of these forgeries, whereby information is shared and enjoyed by those who truly appreciate where it's coming from, and with the example of the Folk projects and others, innovated upon.

In the end, as BJ stated, it stains the name, the reputation(though I feel with all the BJF convert/addicts out there now and numbers growing heavily counter such small-minded activity), and that is the point--if your going to make a mess, do it under your own name.

There is also the emotional attachment we place on the value of things, and in this case complaints of the BJF line being too expensive(and many of us know understandably the reasons behind this), and the classic case of people being driven to make an attempt at a cheaper alternative.

On the flip-side, if you make something that may be great, but even with a reasonable profit margin, price it too low, then many times it is perceived as cheap, and the potential snob factor kicks in.

I for one can say, I have paid a lot, and have paid a little for great tone(and have paid a lot and a little for sh*%#y tone).

I remember when the first Baby Blue OD's surfaced, and it was at a time when I was still focused on much of my vintage gear(pedal-wise), and though it peaked my interest I was happy with what I had at the time.

Fast forward this past spring and gathering information and feedback from people I respect, and reading up on this forum before I joined(first forum BTW, as I eschewed them in the past), only to shortly later, luck-out courtesy of Harri at Custom Sounds, with the purchase of my first BJF pedal, the Deluxe Honey Bee...going on faith for dropping some reasonable coin, sound unheard...well it has been game over ever since.

Many pedals later(CAF, Model H, AWF, SBEQ, SYOD, EGDM, SHOD) I understand and hear the passion of sound that is put into these boxes, and if BJ call these his little spies, I call them my little friends... and they tell me more and more every time I plug in, how he is hearing these sounds in his head, relative to overall tone, feel, vibe, and particularly EQ voicing for any of them.

These cloners are just shoe gazing and high-fiving themselves over the recent turd they laid, with nothing behind it but stink.

I don't think you have anything to worry about, just keep making this great stuff that inspires me to play and write, and realize a level of true tonal satisfaction after 30 years on the instrument... and promised demos, videos forthcoming!

[Strat-o-lux]

I'd be a liar if I didn't enjoy particularly the fact, of the many bootleg/pirate LP's/videos(mostly of Led Zep) I've purchased since high school, at a premium I might add, and if it was CD's at the time, I might have easily burned some copies for friends, but it was mainly for my own enjoyment since much of this material wasn't readily available then.

In this case, right up front, you have someone playing upon the "unobtainium" factor(Honey Bees no longer in production), really blatant forced misinformation(read weakness and sub-intelligence) as any search will quickly disprove this.

Child-like behavior at best, and then you have BJ's wonderfully healthy attitude and focus on this matter, and many others regarding sound/circuits, and the pursuit of tonal happiness...much more of a qualified parental attitude, in light of these forgeries, whereby information is shared and enjoyed by those who truly appreciate where it's coming from, and with the example of the Folk projects and others, innovated upon.

You raise some interesting points. The whole “Ownership”, intellectual property issue is far more complex than often acknowledged. The music industry debate over File Sharing, for example, always avoids exploring the issue of who owns copyright and how was it obtained. The copyright laws were not originally intended to protect corporate profits in perpetuity, they were created to insure that the author’s ability to benefit from his/her creative efforts was protected for a reasonable period of time, recognizing that nothing is created in a vacuum and eventually all rightly belongs in the public domain. Of course the laws themselves have been significantly perverted over time thanks to the ability of large business interests to purchase legislation they desire.

In the case of Bjorn’s circuit designs, there is little to puzzle over – they’re clearly the work of one individual and belong to him. It is truly unfortunate that folks out there won’t respect that, particularly in light of Bjorn’s amazing generosity in sharing information and ideas. But, as you've elegantly put it, some bad behavior indeed seems to be “sewn into the fabric of human nature”.

In the end, I doubt the cloners will do much damage to Bjorn’s business interests, but it is offensive to witness these attempted thefts of his intellectual property. And I think it’s important that those of us who value his work speak out when the occasion calls for it.

I’ve always laughed at complaints about the price of “boutique” effects. Sure, we’d all like to get good stuff cheap. But to actually become indignant over the price of a unique product produced in small quantity by a small business is absurd. Some nut actually put up a webpage somewhere devoted to “exposing” The Great Klon Ripoff, and attacking Bill Finnegan. I’d say, if you don’t like the price don’t buy it. Since the Klon, and all the BJFE pedals, sell faster than the builders can produce them, it would seem they’ve found an appropriate price point.

[ibodog]

I've made myself a clone Honey Bee pedal. I have not had occasion to play through an actual HBOD, but I will say that if it doesn't sound a lot like my clone, I'd be very disappointed! I have purchased, built, and played a large number of boutique to cheap drive pedals and this clone, for me, beats everything except the Matchless HotBox/Bad Cat 2-Tone tube preamp. So whether my pedal is/is not a HBOD, it is *VERY* good.

I am a hobbyist only and so don't sell any pedals or build for hire. That would suck the fun right out of it for me. I am of the opinion that it is fine for these clone builders to sell the pedals, but they sell by leveraging Bjorn's marketing and name. So while many of them talk down the expensive pedals they are cloning at the same time they are not afraid to try to cash in on this themselves and inflate their own prices. It would be better for them to clone the circuit, improve it, and sell under a completely different name and make no mention of BJFE, Honey, or Bee at all. That would be progress.

[soulsonic]

It would be better for them to clone the circuit, improve it, and sell under a completely different name and make no mention of BJFE, Honey, or Bee at all. That would be progress.

Yeah, and that's pretty much the only difference between cloners and many "legitimate" boutique builders anyway.
*cough* analogman *cough*

[melodichaotic]

It would be better for them to clone the circuit, improve it, and sell under a completely different name and make no mention of BJFE, Honey, or Bee at all. That would be progress.

Yeah, and that's pretty much the only difference between cloners and many "legitimate" boutique builders anyway.
*cough* analogman *cough*

Yeah, I got something stuck in my throat as well