How is Mad Professor doing????

[Eskimo_Joe]

I was just wondering how Mad Professor is doing? There doesn't seem to be much buzz on this board or TGP. I've done some reviews on MP stuff and get very little response/reaction.

From an spectator's standpoint, it seems like they have priced themselves out of the market with a $6000 amp that only a fraction of people can afford. Even the diehards like myself can't justify blowing that kind of cash.

On the pedal side, it seems like starting off with the LGW and the Mighty Red caused so much confusion on the part of consumers (is this the same as BJF? Is the Mighty Red the same as the Dyna Red?).

And given that the pedals are relatively affordable, there's almost a branding conflict....the amp is priced in the upper 1% of new boutique amps, but yet the pedals are priced at a fairly average boutique price. Kind of like having a Bentley (amp) and some affordable accessories (pedals).

Anyway, is Mad Professor living up to the initial hype? What are your thoughts? Any thoughts?

[nichcope]

I'd love to have the MP amp, but it is out of my price range for amps. I buy MP pedals expecting BJFE level quality and tone (just without the collector factor since the #'s aren't as limited). So far I've got the TOP, LGW, and the MYT and they've all lived up to or exceeded my expectations. I feel like the upcoming release of the VCF has the potential to really make some waves out there.

[cabo]

maybe the lack of reaction is due to them being relatively new, and still sorta hard to get,,so not many people can relate.

also I think the fraction of people that buy a mp amp have there priorities set to do so,,,I bet many of us have alot of $$$ tied up in pedals alone. everyone seems to justify things differently,,I cant seem to justify 'blowing cash' on a TV.

the pedal confusion probably comes as it does with most things, usually the lack of knowledge and research,,we know there is plenty of it here,some just dont choose to look.

Ive never been let down by a MP product and it would seem that MP is doing fine as it is pushing forward with a new amp and pedals coming soon.

[bjf-crazy]

Interesting....i noticed this also, the new bjfe pedals are not availabe in the Usa at this moment....I do believe the buzz will start again when they are in alot more peoples hands ,including mine!!!! But the market is soft right now.............

[JofZ]

When the US dollar is weak people will stop buying stuff from overseas. The economy was decent enough for most folks to have some disposable income for the past several years. Obviously, that spending stopped. Retail sales are pretty pathetic! This has nothing to do with BJF, or any other pedal/amp builder. Its a cycle and the economy will always be full of valleys in an election year. As far as the stuff being to new to be bought or spoken about, I think it has nothing to do with it. MP pedals were announced how many years ago? When the price point gets to close to the older brother people will hold out for a BJF.
If there was a larger price break on the MP stuff it would sell much faster IMO.
The MP amp is still the best bang for the buck in its price class. If you shop on price alone then you wouldn't look at in the first place!

[Donner]

The Mad Professor amp was built to be the 'Best amp ever made in the entire world' and when it first came out it was about the same price as the Komet ( I remember this too well and kick myself often as I almost bought one of the very first ones and my buddy had a Komet and we spent lots of time 'considering' it ) well the price has gone from about $3000 us then to about $6000 us now and its all exchange rate increases


The MP Pedal line was born of a little different need ----- it saw the light to alleviate the growing and insurmountable backlog of BJFE pedals, and to pass the european RoHS regulations that BJ himself could not /would not in the BJF line...

MP does well in other parts of the world and is still just getting going in the US , but like J said as the value gap widens it gets harder to justify the difference.....

BJF is an older established name now - MP amp has been around quite awhile and enjoyed a long slow climb in popularity but the Pedal line is still finding its niche - the quality is certainly there but they arent cheap and again were created to provide availability of BJs designs, not really to be 'cheaper'............

Like the LGW sounds just as good as the BJF version to most people and now its much more available but not that much cheaper


So MP pedals are intended to be much easier to get than BJFs with similar quality - but not really much cheaper as they are also built by hand, just not BJs hand

and the MP Amp is still the best amp ever made and now has the pricetag to prove it thanks to the weak dollar

[DocRock]

Interesting points, most with which I concur.

Yes, exchange rate sucks.

Yes, the MP Pedals are BJF designs and sound accordingly. Just do a search and read the glowing reviews from myself as well as others. My Deep Blue Delay is the best delay pedal I've ever heard in my whole life. I think the LGW may be one of the best overdrives EVER produced.

That said, I do also agree with points made about the pricing being too close to BJF prices. I realize the MP pedals are still hand made, but I think part of the reason people are willing to pay top dollar for BJF pedals is also the fact that HE made their pedals. It's not why I buy them, but I do think that for some folks, there is likely a mystique or a "mojo" that goes along with having a pedal not only designed by, but also built by the master himself.

When MP prices its pedals too close to "the real thing," I think that there are folks who would just as soon hold out for a real BJF. Look at the Aqua Marine Wonder Machine, for example. It's the same thing as an MP Sky Blue Overdrive, but there were still folks willing to drop $500 on one made by BJ himself. It's not something I would ever consider doing, but I still think I can understand that in some small way. The MP stuff cannot and will not ever be worth as much money to a collector. They may be BJ's designs, but I'd still argue that a big part of the high price tag people will be willing to pay comes from getting to have a pedal that was lovingly crafted by THE Mad Professor, as opposed to the "Mad Professor" brand name. I admit, I do derive personal enjoyment from knowing that my sounds, gig after gig after gig, had part of their origin in an at-home workshop in the suburbs of Stockholm. I love BJ's attention to detail. I love Eva's artwork. The whole package is very, very attractive to me. I get it. I love it.

But based on sound quality alone, I think the MP stuff I've heard thus far really is just as good. This is a credit to BJ's design genius. I'm happy to use MP Pedals, as much as I may love my BJF's. But I do think that for many, they don't want JUST the sound quality alone. They want that personal touch. It's part of what makes things, whether they be guitar pedals, paintings, or pottery ... collectable.

And yes, I understand that the marketing point of the MP line was to make, as Donner said, increased availability of BJ's sounds, not necessarily decreased prices. (So the MP line still carries that boutique price tag.) That may well be true, but I think the average boutique pedal consumer would still just as soon hold out for a real BJF. I think it would be a different story if the MP pedals were priced at less of a mark-up. I realize they're hand-made, and that the US dollar sucks, and the labor costs must be paid. And I'm also a capitalist, and to that end, believe in the MP business' right to make a profit. I still think, though, that they may be shooting themselves in the foot by pricing their pedals a bit too close to BJF, which many folks consider to be "the real thing," regardless of how good the MP pedals actually sound.

I think if the BJF pricing could be held constant, and if the MP line could find a way to lower its price point, it would be win-win for everybody. BJ's business would go on with the usual backlog of orders due to his well-deserved popularity. More people would buy the MP pedals who either couldn't afford BJF or simply didn't want to be on a waiting list. I think more folks would use MP Pedals, more audiences would hear superior quality-tone, and I think that everybody would still be making money. A lot of businesses have been successful in selling things for less of a mark-up and reaping profits in volume of sales.

I just think that when BJF's are between $300-$400 (depending on exchange rates), and MP's are right about $300 themselves, a lot of folks who may be on the fence about trying one of BJ's designs would either a.) buy something else or b.) save up the extra fifty bucks and buy a "real" BJF. Lower that price point on the MP pedals to about $200-$250, IMPROVE distribution and availability, and watch what happens. I'm no economist, but I personally believe they'd sell more pedals. Way more.

Disclaimer: I am a player, NOT a collector. What I've said in this thread are just my own theories about this stuff. My comments are NOT meant to cause offense to anyone who may read this, be a collector himself, and then think I'm putting down what they do. I think most folks around these parts know that I'm a nice guy and that I'm only here to have fun and help out. But with this internet stuff, you never can be too sure how people will take what you're saying. So again, NO OFFENSE is intended towards collectors or anybody else who chooses to spend their own money as they see fit.

Doc

[huckleboogie]

a lot of good points, doc rock!

i personally ,being a player and not a collector, don't care at all if it's BJF or MP, as long AS IT SOUNDS GOOD. and i'm happy that at least some BJF designs will be more easily available for a little less money....off course i love to open up my BJF pedals and see the interior artwork and all....but i think the MP pedals are sturdy and well made, they will function for a long time, just like BJF pedals.
my only complaint about MP line really would be the knobs. i keep messing my settings up onstage with my boots. never happens with the smaller BJF knobs.

[Eskimo_Joe]

I love these types of discussions. Everyone has made some interesting and valid points.

I'm in brand management for my line of work, so I am kind of a dork and like to evaluate these types of things. The thing about Mad Professor as a brand that doesn't make sense to me is the disparity between the amp pricing and the pedal pricing.

The amp is priced at 6K (cabinet not included). This to me, communicates a lot about the quality you can expect from the amp. In effect, they backing up the "best amp in the world" claim with a price that would suggest the same notion. (For example, If it was a $1000 bucks and sold in Guitar Center, no one would call it the best amp in the world, even though it might be the best). There are relatively few other brands of amps that play in this high of a price range.

The pedals on the other hand are all right around $300. There are lots of brands of pedals that are priced in this area, and are essentially competing for the same wallets. The $300 price range does not communicate "best pedals in the world".

So, there's a disparity. Probably nobody in the world of guitar gear geekdom cares, but nonetheless, there is a mixed message about Mad Professor the brand. We're used to mixed messages from other manufacturers, even the biggest ones like Fender, Marshall, Gibson, etc. Just a geeky marketing guy perception.

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As far as people holding out for a BJF over an MP ---

This is interesting. I agree that if someone has $400 burning a hole in their pocket, most likely that person would prefer to spend it on a BJF over an MP. I agree with what many have said in that BJF pedals are infinitely more special --- by virtue of the personal touches BJ and his wife put on them. Think of the world we live in --- what's the last handmade item you bought???? We live in a world where food is assembled on an assembly line and given to you in a bag through a window, furniture comes in the form of particle board and do-it-yourself instructions, contractors can put up a subdivision in a month based on model homes (that looks just like every other subdivision in town), every strip mall looks the same etc. There is a vast lack of the human touch that the BJF brand embodies.

Switching gears, with the exception of the LGW, no other pedal is shared between MP and BJF.

Mighty Red - no BJF equivalent (although tons of confusion exists by virtue of the name)
Fire Red - no BJF equivalent
Mellow Yellow - distinctly different from the original Saffron Yellow
Deep Blue - no BJF equivalent
Tiny Orange - no BJF equivalent (not at all like the Folk Phaser IMO)
Sky Blue - no BJF equivalent

So it's not exactly apples to apples -- in that I'm passing on an MP Fire Red so I can get a BJF Fire Red.

As far as the relative lack of hype

I agree with JofZ on this one. To prove the point, I think if BJF had come out with the Tiny Orange Phaser or the Sky Blue OD or the Mellow Yellow Trem under the BJF name, there would be a tidal wave of discussion, inquiries about waiting lists, etc.

I think the bottom line is that there is way more value to the BJF brand name than MP brand name, despite the common origin and same tonal quality. Just look at the resale value of a LGW. Today they are going for $225 on TGP. I guarantee I could list my BJF LGW and get between $400 - $450. I'm telling you, the difference between the two pedals is such that no one could tell without a heads up. The difference is the handmade care, a reputation that goes hand in hand with BJF.

In any case, great discussion. Keep it rolling!

[DocRock]

Excellent observations, EJ!

You do make a good point about the "apples to apples" comment. It is true that the only BJF counterpart to an MP pedal is the LGW (and the AMWM, but those are so scarce, it almost doesn't count). I hadn't really thought about that when I was typing my comments. I guess maybe what I was getting at, in a broader sense, was that some folks might tend to hold out and spend their money on the BJF brand pedal as opposed to the MP brand of pedals.

Just brainstorming here, one thing Harri et al. at MP could do to address the perceived "lack of human touch" to their pedals (even though they ARE handmade) would be to have the builders themselves start signing the bottom plates or something. On the MP website, maybe even have pics and little bios about the kind Finnish folks who do the work to make these creations for us? Maybe some of the folks attracted to the handmade nature of the BJF brand could also be more attracted to the MP brand if we could know who is actually making them. The best part...it would cost them NOTHING to do it.

Remember the Tylenol TV commercials from a few months back, when they had people who worked there (or at least actors pretending to be) give little personal statements about the pride they take in making a product that so many people like, etc.? Or some of the auto maker commercials or the cereal commercials where you see factory workers talking about the cereal they make or the cars they build?

I think it could only enhance the "human factor" if the folks at MP who build the pedals were to sign them on the inside or something. I also like my idea of identifying them on the MP website. All of this could make a better connection with the consumer, thereby reinforcing the idea that these pedals cost what they cost because they're still handmade by a real, live human being and not punched out on an assembly line.

Anyway, just my continued ramblings....

Doc