SYOD Research Review Repository

[cajone5]

If we are going to be technical about it I'd say your boxes contained the Carlin twins. Afterall he's older more biting and in your face . The duel Donner boxes in my posession are a bit smoother and more refined

Your v2 will begin it's long journey across the ocean tomorrow AM. Be prepared

[Donner]

Damn Murphy wins again !!!!!

[hawaii121]

First impression - Wooooohhhh! V1 is an angry beast! Through some seymour duncan JB and 59 and the /13 JRT (with 1x12 loaded with a blue) lot's of chu-chunk. Stacked into the CAF or DRD and it's shear meltdown! TOP into V1 = very pleasing... Feels like a much more aggressive attack than any of my other BJFE. With the drive down and volume up and used to push others behind it - it creates a whole new realm for exploration - easy to generate low volume feedback . I like it better with the 6v6 side of the amp, it's a little too bright on the el84 for me. The HB helped smooth it out a little, but it still sounds better through the warmer power tube section of my amp. Lots of fun, but I can't wait to hear V2 as I think it will be better suited to my set up and tastes.

45 minutes later... if you haven't done it and you have one, run your TOP into this pedal, it's really really wicked sounding. Haven't tried it with the MGMV yet, but will tomorrow.

The Hangover... When the V2 arrives I'll do a more in depth review, for now it was just fun and at lower volume (3 to 4 range on both volume settings with treble cut rolled back to about 10:30 and the tone stack at 11) - the V1 definitely has a very different character from my other BJFE. Initially, I would say that it is more aggressive and raw with it's overdrive. In the bridge pickup, the sounds I was getting were making me think of the sound that came through an overdriven el34 'old Marshally' amp I have when I was playing through two g12T-75, i.e., 80's metal when at higher drive levels with lots of the previously mentioned "chunk" but also with some really good note separation.

Switching to the neck pu with the TOP engaged and drive rolled back to about 2-3 o'clock, a live version inspired "Sunshine of Your Love" became very hard to stop playing. Bends and vibratos really seared. And again, this pedal really shined with the TOP running into it. I couldn't resist jumping right into stacking and, at a quick glance, this pedal seems to compliment all of my other pedals EXCEPT for the EGDM which was treble overload.

Depending on how far the V2 goes into the "smooth" category, I think I can understand where version 1.5 might come in. There are certainly qualities of V1 that are very appealing.

I'm also curious how this is going to sound through different speaker configurations, my 68 Sunn with el34s, and at full band volume. I have a 2x12 with Golds that is a bit more mellow than the 1x12 with the blue - I'll give it a go this weekend.

[SteveA]

Yeah I had a similar experience with the /13 EDT (uses KT66), a little too bright. I think you'll really appreciate the smoother flavor of the v2 as it really works well with my rig.

[melodichaotic]

Got the lovely twins yesterday--Thanks Donner!! Had a chance, short of a demo which I'll hopefully get to this week, to fire them up at gigging+ levels for a while to really let them breathe and hear what they do side by side.
Here's what I found:

First off, as has been previously noted...hats off to Donner for these outstanding looking bright yeller bricks. They are almost luminous and will light up anyone's board in more ways than one.
It's cool after about a year ago, having won a SYOD V2 to see them side by side, as Donner noted, the older ones have the Gold Top going on, whereas these are pulled straight from the yellow brick road.

Equipment used was a LP R8 and a '94 Matchless SC-30 head through a matching open back
2x12 loaded with Matchless voiced Celestions(25 and 30 watt). I used both channels which are completely different sounding: Channel 1, the dual triode, toothy, fangy, sparkly, chime channel, and Channel 2, the EF86 pentode full, bold, and thick, with a 5 way mid cut switch set in the middle(not too lean and not to thick)--GREAT for dialing in the right frequency response no matter what guitar/pick configuration.


Having been familiar with V2, I will start there:
This overdrive it hotter than a stock HB, leaner in the low mids, and more American rock and roll sounding as I mentioned in other threads, though to me I don't associate it with a vintage Fender amp overdrive per se--out of the tweeds/blonde/browns, and blackfaces, I think it is most reminiscent of a cranked Vibrolux Reverb, even more than a Deluxe Reverb, because of the 2x10 configuration...

V2 is the more focused sounding of the two, tighter but not too tight, and smoother sounding, but still gritty like an overdrive should be--I feel what excels on V2 is the treble control...REALLY well voiced, a lot of use-able range though out to dial in to taste, and even when maxed it has sparkle but is not harsh.

On it's own it instantly comes across because all of this, as very riff friendly and excellent for R&R chord chunking.

It has attitude and a feel that begs you to want to dig in, especially when turned up drive and volume-wise, that makes you want to fully explore the dynamics, but yet is still is refined in character(in a very good way) overall.

In this manner it is pretty complete sounding--my only wish would for it to have about 20% more gain, just to be able to ride the threshold of openness and compression more, though as I "illustrated" in my first audio demo, that when hit upside the head with a little BPB love, those goods are easily unleashed, and noise levels as such are entirely reasonable for what your getting.

Now on to V1--I took a chance on this one, since I was so pleased with V2, but like most all things BJF, the curiosity got the better of me..."Analog Hog" mentioned his preference for V1 over V2, when used with his Marshalls, and that stuck in my mind...with all that upper mid energy and presence coming from a Marshall, why go for more of the same (as I had only read about up to that pont) with V1...now I know why.

Instantly it's zingy sonic signature wants to stand up and be heard--I will hit it right up front that the treble control has a much limited use-able range( CCW to 12-2 'o clock max in either channel) before the slice becomes just too much for this circuit(and this is with humbuckers and a Paul)--yes, maybe more use able through a darker set-up, but all things being relative here, V2 easily out performs V1 in this area.

Quick note:On Channel one of the Matchless there is a most prominent upper mid response that can be contoured a bit with knob twiddling an/or pre-amp tube swapping--Channel two actually ducks some of that upper mid and treble bite in comparison without sounding dull at all.

This all being said...I LOVE V1!! ...these pedals are two different animals, and the differences become more apparent the more you crank them up.

First off, having them side by side, and spending the time at the volume I did, I will say without question on the pair I played through, V1 is obviously the higher gain of the two, and you can instantly feel that in the sustain and compression--nothing psychological about IMO.

Yes, it is more open sounding, yes it is more "sparkly", but at full drive with 'buckers it's very close to a distortion pedal in gain.

Must be Bjorn's healthy dose of Swedish fairy dust, that still gives it a most discerning and undeniable overdrive grit which keeps it sounding as such.

V1 is also ballsier--it has way more slice, but it doesn't sound thin at all. It is also more aggravated sounding in the mids to upper mids than V2, and actually looser sounding--the sizzle I'm hearing has less to do with the EQ, and more just a quality of the circuit/overdrive characteristics--kind of reminds me of the sort of rattle in (not surprisingly) the immediate decay quality of a sizzle cymbal( a crash cymbal with rivets) in a MOST pleasing way--in fact, when I tamed the treble to taste through either channel, it was downright infectious, and very inspiring...I did NOT want to stop playing!

I found that there was still a fair amount of range considering in the treble pot, to where from about 9 'o clock or so, to 12 or 2(again depending on what channel) it still was open sounding(relative to this circuit which is already very open sounding), before it got a bit much.

Funny, and no surprise, I will note that when I dimed the treble through either channel, although terribly bright, it was still a PLEASING brightness and not ice-picky harsh sounding.


In closing, I could say and agree with the reviews so far, that a V1.5 merge of the two would be cool, in maybe say a four-knob version that had a nature knob for the mid voicing, and a treble or voicing pot for adding in degrees of desired openness.

My initial thoughts though are the opposite--I think that they might be best served as two separate Sparkling Overdrives with minor tweaks...maybe a bit more gain(thinking of lower output pick-ups here) with a TOUCH of openness for V2, and really just a re-voiced treble pot or maybe nature pot to get more mileage out of the voicing for V1.

I will get into stacking in follow up demos as well.

[mikepick]

Nice well written review Marty. I'm with you and wish the v2 had about 20% more gain. I would love to see a 1.5v come into production and the nature and treble control is a cool idea.

And yes as Marty mentioned Excellent job Donner on the finishes. Thanks for making the pedals look as good as they sound.

[SteveA]

Thanks Marty for that review (and for the BBOD ) !

Its true that a fourth knob for separate treble and tone/nature control would be awesome. The v2 is clearly the most universal of the two pedals. So add in a nature knob that allows to opens up the treble to allow it to cut through the mix more (maybe even reduce the low end a bit) would be perfect. I think that would really merge the things we love about the v1 into the v2. The idea would just to have the settings that can be used for leads and rhythm work! sign me up for one

[High Noon]

Wow, Marty very impressive review. This board has so much insight into effects!! It is always hard for me to describe differences in pedals, not to mention nuances of two similar overdrives. Again, a very impressive bunch and an impressive builder!!

[bsic]

Awesome review is right! Marty you have a way of describing sounds that is ultra articulate - your description of the sizzle comparing to a cymbal crash in decay, for example... Love the detail on the knob positions and ranges as well.

I don't associate it with a vintage Fender amp overdrive per se--out of the tweeds/blonde/browns, and blackfaces, I think it is most reminiscent of a cranked Vibrolux Reverb, even more than a Deluxe Reverb, because of the 2x10 configuration...

I mentioned a Deluxe loosely.. because the riffs I played that sounded dead on to originals... that many of these were playing deluxe's in the studio. Not a scientific process at all. Just mainly getting that this has a Fenderish quality as opposed to vox, marshall, hiwatt, soldano, mesa, etc.. For clarity to all I was not implying this is a "Deluxe in a box" type of pedal.


I found it interesting that you found V2 being more focused, and V1 being more open and looser sounding. One thing that I immediately read and agreed with was also the comment V2 has "a feel that begs you to want to dig in"... dead on.

The more I play these.. the more I want both instead of just one of the pair. They both cover enough different ground on their own for sure.

In fact anyone who is looking to offload thiers in favor of V2, let me know... Ive got the V2 covered already.

[bsic]

One other comment on the distortion/gain between the two... allow me to ramble for a sec on a train of thought

Increased distortion can happen by increasing a preamp gain to induce more clip, or also by adding higher order odd harmonics. Perhaps a better way to say it is that increase *clip* can result by adding higher order odd harmonics. Distortion actually occurs with both odd or even.. even harmonics generate more asymmetry in the combined waveform and not necessarily clipping.

The reason I mention the "mind playing tricks"... Increased higher overtones (assume odd harmonics for this example) results in more audible "distortion". These higher harmonics are normally not heard when unamplified and this is part of what makes a distorted guitar sound distorted. Its the combination of these upper odd harmonics which combine to cancel out portions of the waveform and give a result that would appear "clipped", ie distorted. So you can distort without directly forcing a clip via diodes/etc, by combining upper odd harmonics with the original signal.

The more upper odd harmonic content present, the more the resultant waveform is naturally squared off by combining these, and the sound is more and more distorted and eventually becomes harsh/buzzy sounding so thats the balance, how much depends on what you are after I guess. As far as overdrives, the classic overdriven push-pull power amp sounds are created in part by addition of higher odd-order harmonics in the output section/transformer. (Randall Smith has a really cool paper out there on class A amps where he discusses this some)

End result, im wondering if you can have a more distorted sound without increased gain... contrary to our minds which associate more distortion solely with more gain. More importantly, could ears even distinguish the difference?

Add on to this that some tone stacks (Black/Silverface Fenders, many Mesas) the EQ stack is placed early in the preamp. The first filter hit is Treble control... increasing treble will dump more signal into the preamp, further clipping the signal fed to the rest of the preamp and to the power amp. This mental association would be more incidental.. Marshalls for example have their EQ later in the preamp and this doesnt apply.

The reason I thought the odd harmonics might be the case in the SYOD was because comparing the two, the immediate thing I felt/heard was the additional brightness, sizzle, and complexity in the upper frequencies... The next thing I noticed but to a slightly lesser degree was a more crunchy, somewhat more distorted sound. The difference changed with different/lower drive settings.

.. we'll never know the true method to the madness in 's designs. I mean madness in a good way of course

Anyways, just a fun tangential theory, its been a while since I dove into details of amp design and that was mainly textbook so if any of this is incorrect, please correct me . In the end so much depends on perception of the end result anyways and that is something unique to each of us. Im not sure ears could even perceive how the end result is generated.. ie, does clipping generate the harmonics, or do harmonics generate the clipping... who put chocolate in my peanut butter... who put peanut butter in my chocolate... I have no clue., and no one may care, this is just one nerdy engineer speculating on one of the many BJFE mysteries.





This whole SYOD comparison is such a cool experiment. I lent the twins to a friend locally for a night and he has no idea this forum or T*P for that matter exists, and takes the guitar-direct-to-amp setup purist view, not too much into dirt boxes. I cant wait to hear his feedback.