Why do so many flip Model H's?

[thesjkexperience]

One of my favorite pedals and a couple of people that have played mine are on the list to get one. Why so many for sale all the time?

[melodichaotic]

I have three, no kidding, with the plan to use two for different settings, and sell the other...trouble is they all sound like Model H's=awesome, and they all sound unique.

Understandably, there is a reasonable percentage of real players that don't bond with any one, or particular pedal, but then there are a fair amount of waanabees that end up flipping anything they come across like the flavor of the month.

That being said, within the BJF community the Model H had a hot spell about a year ago where at least three SOLD on Ebay for $650 a pop...

Consequently, there is that newness, ooh-aahh factor that kicks in, and then wears off because there is word of (another) new model around the corner and it seems certain models don't get really fully explored it seems, or appreciated(EGDM comes to mind).

Specifically with the Model H, it has the built-in hype that it's a "Hiwatt in a box", and all the preconceived notions start sticking to fly paper. Donner has said in the design, that there was so much travel left in the gain range after coping that Hiwatt-vibe at lower settings, that BJ just kept going with it, and we're glad he did...point is, forget the label...let's just call it prototype X, and dig it(and into it) for what it is... a killer, sweet sounding complex distortion dripping in harmonics and overtones.

[strings2wood]

Top 10 possible reasons:

1. There are less Model H's out there than HB's or DRD's etc.
It can yield a higher return than some more readily available
in the BJF line when you need to fund your next purchase.

2. THe Model H might not suit the tones you seek with your amp/ guitars.

3. Other BJF pedals may meet your od/ distortion needs.
e.g. the combo of a HB and DRD would be sufficient for some.

4. I think the Model H is sometimes over simplified when referred to as:
a Hi-Watt in a box.
i.e. It's Townshend or Gilmour- pretty wide parameter there alone.
So we pigeonhole it as the player or one trick pony we hope to emulate.
In short the Model H does both and more!

Donner and Newarkwilder have both tried to articulate the Hi-Watt "intention" as they understand it.
I hope they don't mind me quoting their thoughts/ insights from TGP where others have suggested
" Ït didn't sound like a Hi-Watt to me".

a few thoughts ...

The point of the H was to capture the sound and FEEL of a Hiwatt and the way it reacts with the guitar...
BJ did that with the first third of the drive knob - but what to do with the rest? Yes the H does things a Hiwatt cant/wont --- or to put it another way it does the Hiwatt morph and more.
But us distortion junkies cant just leave it on 10 oclock can we

and as with any pedal alot will depend on the rig its put in, especially speakers....

Like BJ said its not a production model and its not a tweeked Cliffhanger either.... but the first third of the Hs drive knob is the closest thing Ive felt to a Hiwatt feel from my non Hiwatt rig - the other 2/3s is gravyland .... (Donner)

and Newarkwilder:
While I love tearing into its gain, honestly I think what is most overlooked about this pedal is how well it cleans up while still retaining incredible dynamics. I keep the gain set relatively low, to the point where at like 2 on my guitar's volume knob I'm basically getting a completely clean tone, but its nice and fat and chewy--THIS is the part of the pedal that reminds me of classic Hiwatt tones the most. For having so much damn gain on tap, it still gives you an amazing clean tone. I've come to realize I actually prefer this for cleans than any other pedal (if i'm gonna use any pedal for clean/semi-clean stuff)--and then being able to just slide your way into some real crunch with your volume knob is just awesome.

I freaking love every BJF drive I've played--but this is the one that I feel the most connected to. (Newarkwilder)


5. BJF pedals can be quite complex in terms of how interactive the knobs are
and take more time than the first impression with everything maxed out
without the benefit of even that inital "honeymoon" period
let alone time to explore the pedal.
I didn't fully appreciate/ get to know the DRD when I first got it.

The Model H and a Fender Vibro King
were made for each other from the word go.
For me, the Model H is THE perfect Vibro King match- Equal to the HB.
The DRD is THE perfect Marshall style pedal for a Fender amp.

6.We are fickle
7. We are particular
8. We have OCD.

9. We want the Donner Box one or we want to sell the Donner Box for a grey one.-see 6, 7 and 8.

10. New MP's are coming.


Why not to flip it:
Thread from The Library

http://www.bjfe.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=115
made me turn down the volume on my strat-
and paired with a Rocket Ride FEOTM and the Fender VK-
this GREAT Hi-Watt tone is achieved easily- (including the final solo).
I wouldn't have been thinking that if I stayed in the maxed out Pete Townshend Hi-Watt mind set:

Compared to Fatback's wonderful
WHO like clip
complete with spotaneous windmill spins
as he morphs into Townshend with palpable joy!
It's a great demo especially the clean up on the volume.


http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=-1845556799859823426&ei=FwyeS46vA6WaqQP-6KmeDA&q=Model+H&hl=en#

[melodichaotic]

a few thoughts ...

The point of the H was to capture the sound and FEEL of a Hiwatt and the way it reacts with the guitar...
BJ did that with the first third of the drive knob - but what to do with the rest? Yes the H does things a Hiwatt cant/wont --- or to put it another way it does the Hiwatt morph and more.
But us distortion junkies cant just leave it on 10 oclock can we

and as with any pedal alot will depend on the rig its put in, especially speakers....

Like BJ said its not a production model and its not a tweeked Cliffhanger either.... but the first third of the Hs drive knob is the closest thing Ive felt to a Hiwatt feel from my non Hiwatt rig - the other 2/3s is gravyland .... (Donner)

Great post...thanks for pulling out all the info, the original thread, and this quote from Donner I was referring to in my post.

[SteveA]

Well quite honestly, I am selling mine cause I just liked the finish of the donnerbox so much more. Unexpectedly, I found that I actually liked the sound of it more as well. I mean you CAN get the same sounds from both more or less, but at equal settings the DonnerBox seems to have a higher volume output and a clearer cut through sound. Both to be honest work quite well with my Divided /13 amp, though some say it wouldn't work as well with darker amps I personally can't really say. I do however prefer it on the /13 than the Two Rocks for classic rock sounds. My 2 cents.

[Donner]

.... I was just reading an interview with Pete in on of the current mags.... and he related a few very enlightening things about his rig.....
One being that a big part of his sound that he was trying to get Jim Marshall to make was a very low output thin rickenbacker pickup - and the Leeds sound was a mixture of Marshall and Sound Cities (and later Hiwatts) - and that SGs were ok but he really like the Rickies and Strats ( Im paraphrasing)

But yes that either very low output pickup or volume down around 2 is very much a part of that sound .....

I think many people hear that sound the way they hear ACDC which is actually a mostly clean - but many play it much dirtier than it is ....

anyway I think the very first batch of Hs was a little brighter and clangier, that may be part of it too - some will prefer one or the other.....

[strings2wood]

I think Audley Freed explains it well here too Donner.
He's actually made me listen more closely to Malcolm Young.
Check out his tone even on something like the playout on Long Way to the Top.

Audley seems like a pretty straight up guy in this whole series of clips.
Unassuming, humble and when he gets to talking
about Jimmy page and HIS excitement about
The Pretty Things,Link Wray and Duane Eddy (around 7 mins in the 1st clip).
Inspiring stuff.
Note: the tone he's getting with that 15 watt Matchless and then check how many pedals he's NOT using.

.... I was just reading an interview with Pete in on of the current mags.... and he related a few very enlightening things about his rig.....
One being that a big part of his sound that he was trying to get Jim Marshall to make was a very low output thin rickenbacker pickup - and the Leeds sound was a mixture of Marshall and Sound Cities (and later Hiwatts) - and that SGs were ok but he really like the Rickies and Strats ( Im paraphrasing)

But yes that either very low output pickup or volume down around 2 is very much a part of that sound .....

I think many people hear that sound the way they hear ACDC which is actually a mostly clean - but many play it much dirtier than it is ....

anyway I think the very first batch of Hs was a little brighter and clangier, that may be part of it too - some will prefer one or the other.....

[melodichaotic]

.... I was just reading an interview with Pete in on of the current mags.... and he related a few very enlightening things about his rig.....
One being that a big part of his sound that he was trying to get Jim Marshall to make was a very low output thin rickenbacker pickup - and the Leeds sound was a mixture of Marshall and Sound Cities (and later Hiwatts) - and that SGs were ok but he really like the Rickies and Strats ( Im paraphrasing)

But yes that either very low output pickup or volume down around 2 is very much a part of that sound .....

I think many people hear that sound the way they hear ACDC which is actually a mostly clean - but many play it much dirtier than it is ....

anyway I think the very first batch of Hs was a little brighter and clangier, that may be part of it too - some will prefer one or the other.....

Yeah, most bands/players have a pitfall with that when playing AC/DC...it makes you wonder how much they are actually listening to what's going on...I try to impart this to my more advanced students...you have to be a very active listener to what it is your playing, how your playing it, and the tone you're getting or going after...

And of course, lower output pick-ups will give you the greater dynamic range always...P-90's rule, Filtertrons rock, but I like Ric horseshoe magnet single coils even better...they sound amazingly HUGE!

[strings2wood]

Yeah, most bands/players have a pitfall with that when playing AC/DC...it makes you wonder how much they are actually listening to what's going on...I try to impart this to my more advanced students...you have to be a very active listener to what it is your playing, how your playing it, and the tone you're getting or going after...

And of course, lower output pick-ups will give you the greater dynamic range always...P-90's rule, Filtertrons rock, but I like Ric horseshoe magnet single coils even better...they sound amazingly HUGE!

Yes indeed-less is sometmes way more.
That Audley Freed clip really emphasises that.
It's such a rich, fat tone he's getting.
overive with articulation rather than distortion with fizz.
I imagine that's a paradigm shift in thinking once your students do
listen to the idea you really hope they are hearing.

It surprised me (and made me listen)
to hear how much respect Audley Freed gave to Malcolm Young's playing.

I have stag-mag (split coils) on my Heritage H-170.
Alot of guys love Heritage guitars with p-90'S and or P-Rails.
Wonderful with the Model H.

[Donner]

love that creem colored SG !